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Interchange – The Persistence of Patriarchy: An Interview with Carol Gilligan

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Carol Gilligan is very well-known for having authored the influential feminist classic In a Different Voice: Psychological Theory and Women’s Development published in 1982. This centered on a critique of the then current theories of moral development which literally excluded the study of girls and women and simply assumed studying boys and men would suffice to give the whole picture. Within this framework, women were found inferior and their moral landscape less sophisticated than that of men. Carol Gilligan showed how wrong that was and how much psychology has been a field for patriarchal explanations of human behavior. And she has continued showing us very clearly the sites of disruption, the when and the where that the codes and scripts of patriarchy overwhelm our own voices.

For today’s show we focus on Gilligan’s two recent books, both out from Polity Press. These are Joining the Resistance and Why Does Patriarchy Persist?, this last co-authored with Naomi Snider.

Gilligan continues to focus on the speaking voice and insists that fostering the space for this voice is essential for democracy, care, and love…all of which might be considered as aspects of what is best in the beings we call humans.

But let’s give Gilligan and Snider the floor:

Our book begins from the observation that patriarchal codes of masculine honor and feminine goodness enforce a sacrifice of love for hierarchy. Think of the biblical Abraham, willing to sacrifice his son Isaac to prove his devotion to God. Patriarchy hinges on our willingness to make a similar sacrifice—to override authentic connection and love – which hinge on mutual recognition and respect – for the sake of securing our position within the existing hierarchy of privilege and power. A boy, seeking to establish himself as a real boy or a manly man, needs to cover his “feminine” qualities by hiding his tenderness and disavowing his desire for someone to be there for him. A girl who wants to be seen as a “good girl” or the kind of girl or woman others want to be with needs to silence the voice that says what she really thinks and feels.

Contrary to popular belief, this sacrifice of connection for the sake of hierarchy is neither inevitable or natural.

GUEST
Carol Gilligan is an American feminist psychologist who has transformed the way we think about women and men and the relations between them. Currently a professor at New York University, in 1982 she published her ground-breaking book In a Different Voice. Her more recent work has focused on the implications of human relationships and gender for citizenship, emphasizing that a sensitive appreciation of gender development can open up a more humane way of thinking about personal and political relationships. Books discussed: The Birth of Pleasure (Knopf, 2002), Joining the Resistance (Polity, 2011), Why Does Patriarchy Persist?, with Naomi Snider (Polity, 2018).

RELATED
Carefully Smash the Patriarchy (NYT)
Still Face Experiment: Dr. Edward Tronick (YouTube)
“In a Different Voice”: Act II, by Carol Gilligan
A Revolutionary “New Truth” for America: Nathaniel Hawthorne’s The Scarlet Letter, with Carol Gilligan.

MUSIC
The Raincoats – “No One’s Little Girl”
The Bags – “Babylonian Gorgon”
Mecca Normal – “Man Thinks Woman”
The Brat – “Attitudes”

CREDITS
Producer & Host: Doug Storm
Executive Producer: Wes Martin

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